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Jan. 23rd, 2004 08:50 pm
dodododo: (мэри)
[personal profile] dodododo
мУки атеиста.
особенно рекомендуется детям -- вот к чему вы можете придти, если будете маяться дурью.

Date: 2004-01-23 07:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soamo.livejournal.com
Что же вы за психолог, если не можете меня "вылечить" без поддержки зала?

Date: 2004-01-23 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
с чего вы взяли, что я собралась Вас лечить? да еще бесплатно?

Date: 2004-01-23 08:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soamo.livejournal.com
Яда от Еввы набрались, да?

Date: 2004-01-23 08:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marusyaka.livejournal.com
Так можно любую ссылку на чужой постинг воспринимать...

Date: 2004-01-23 08:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gera.livejournal.com
Маяться дурью = не верить в загробную жизнь?

Date: 2004-01-23 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
по крайней мере, не задаваться этим вопросом вовремя. лет до 25, хотя бы.

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Date: 2004-01-23 08:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sashnik.livejournal.com
по теме
захватывающая и поучительная игра во флеше.
http://www.zefrank.com/athiest/athiest.html
Вечные вопросы и всякоэ такоэ.

Date: 2004-01-23 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
эх. не умею я в эти игры играть -- тяжелое детство

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Date: 2004-01-23 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] polryby1.livejournal.com
Хм. Не всем же точно знать, как устроен этот мир, что откуда берется и куда девается. Некоторые, так всю жизнь всё сомневаются и пытаются прояснить отдельные моменты. Вон американские атеисты Марсоход какой-то заслали. Мало им загробной жизни им еще и на Марсе жизнь нужна:)Вот к чему можно прийти, если маяться дурью...

Date: 2004-01-23 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
ну это что! даже наши атеисты слетали в космос и Бога там не увидели... а Вы говорите!

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Date: 2004-01-23 09:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] e-dikiy.livejournal.com
Я там, в комментах у Коллеги, отреагировал.

Жестковато - ну, так мне и положено.

Date: 2004-01-23 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
коллеги? вот не знала, что Вы -- художник)

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Date: 2004-01-23 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ptarh.livejournal.com
Ой, ну что-ж Вы мне это раньше не дали! Теперь уже поздно. Зерно сомнения выросло и стало дубом. Так и помру атеистом :/

Date: 2004-01-23 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
какой же Вы -- атеист? Вы -- ищущий))

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мда

Date: 2004-01-23 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] silpol.livejournal.com
а я вот в последнее время все думал совсем по-другому: атеизм - это такая религия, просто она специфическая, без центрального идола как у монотеистов, или пантеона у язычников... как всегда - другие конфесии ее, естественно, не признают, ибо религия (просьба не путать с верой) есть единственный общественный институт, где нет компромисса с себе подобными :) это вроде как государственные мужи вечно пугают свое собственной население анархией, хотя на самом деле это все следует называть беспорядками, а анархия на самом деле совсем другое...

что касается веры (которая совсем не религия) - здесь, видимо, лучше не открывать рот, ибо верующие люди обычно ОЧЕНЬ болезненно относятся к комментариям, ведь это касается и их...

Re: мда

Date: 2004-01-23 10:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
да, атеизм тоже религия. и даже с центральной фигурой, которая зовется "боганет"))

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Вообще-то, нет.

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Date: 2004-01-23 11:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] natsi.livejournal.com
А я не совсем понимаю в чем проблема?
И почему маяться дурью?

Date: 2004-01-23 11:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
проблема -- у автора постинга. по-моему, он ее ясно выразил.

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Re:

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BTW:

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Date: 2004-01-24 03:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steba.livejournal.com
Прагматично: во что мы неосознанно верим, в то автоматически погружаем ребенка, на 99,8% и не беспокоясь о том сознательно. Что пальцы не суют в розетку, что хорошие дяди не пьют (всегда пьют), что сейчас ты будешь есть супчик, а не конфеты и т.п. У младенца просто душа сливается с душой родителей - это истины совр. психологии на "коротком" языке. Предлагать ему постоянно "выбор" - это жестокая манипуляция, потому что насилие над его психологией.
2. Родители, практикующие христиане, идут в церковь (в монастырь едут и т.п.) - и это было бы искусственно НЕ взять с собой малыша (в 12-15 лет проблемы иные, конечно) туда, где они сами проводят время.
3. У любого традиционно верующего ребенка в подростковом возрасте произойдет кризис, когда он заново выберет - или отвергнет - веру родителей. Мягче - жестче, быстрее - дольше, заметнее - невидимо - но неизбежно.

Date: 2004-01-24 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
согласна по всем пунктам))

Date: 2004-01-25 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ---des---.livejournal.com
согласен с пп. 2. Только "взять с собой" (на "ознакомительную экскурсию") и провести церковный обряд с участием младенца (крещение, напр.) - совершенно разные вещи.

пп. 1. - ахинея, извините. ИМХО, разумеется. Последствия "отсутствия выбора" я видел (и продолжаю наблюдать) совсем недавно - в 20 лет наступила такая кошмарная реакция психики сына на насилие и это пресловутое (насильственное, хотя насилие здесь весьма замаскировано, и добрая мать представить себе не могла, какую ошибку совершает) "слияние душ", что мать просто глазам своим не верила - ее ли это сын? Она же действительно никогда не учила его ничему плохому и нарадоваться, нагордиться не могла, какой он у нее хороший и добрый мальчик. А добрый мальчик стал отчебучивать такое, что "мама не горюй" - и это вполне понятно: он был ограничен в выборе самоидентификации, он слишком долго не мыслил даже себя иным, кроме "хорошего", и когда этот естественный выбор наконец предоставился (жизнь стала самостоятельной) - начал, похоже, "отрываться" на всю катушку. "Раскачка психомаятника" в масштабе десятилетий.
3. Да, и тут уж или попяры подоспеют со своим "причастием", еще на время оттянув проблему или вообще загнав ее столь глубоко в подкорку, что она только через десятилетия "вылезет" - неизвестно откуда взявшейся непреходящей депрессией или неврозом, или уж... не стоит удивляться, если он этот кризис не преодолеет. Этот кризис весьма мощен - как и любая борьба с "вбитыми с детства" родительскими стереотипами. Эта борьба, вообще говоря, нормальный и естественный процесс, если только она не усилена многократно "страхами божьими", восприятием "жизни как испытания" и прочей псевдоэтикой. В последнем случае - психика может и не выдержать.

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(deleted comment)

Date: 2004-01-26 12:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodododo.livejournal.com
Вы мне ответили по ошибке))
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